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ForumsPublic SquareDoes anyone else feel like they are in a secret club now — November 2025

Does anyone else feel like they are in a secret club now — November 2025

julia.endo Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 8:55 PM 15 replies 1,920 viewsPage 1 of 3
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julia.endo
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Oct 6, 2024 at 8:55 PM#1

A reference post rather than a discussion. Corrections are the point; I would rather this be right than mine. It is about the trial evidence, and it is deliberately narrow — everything I am not confident about is marked as such.

What is actually established

The gap between trial results and real-world results is consistent and it is not fraud. Trial participants get titration by protocol, scheduled contact, free drug and dietetic support; removing that infrastructure costs a few percentage points every time it has been measured. When your own curve sits below the published mean, that is the likeliest explanation before anything about you or your material.

The condition it depends on

Subgroup analyses deserve particular suspicion. With enough subgroups something is significant by chance, and pre-registered subgroups are a different animal from ones found afterwards.

The practical version

A quick sanity check on any figure quoted here: is it mean or median, is it intention-to-treat or completers, and what was the comparator. Three questions, and they resolve most disagreements in these threads.

What I am not sure about

What I am trying to establish is how to read a result like this without either dismissing it or over-reading it, since the summaries all read like press releases. Numbers rather than impressions, if you have them.

— julia.endo · corrections welcome and will be edited into this post with credit
11 14anna.melb_AU, mark_tokyo, hans_munich and 8 others
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COA_Karl
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Oct 6, 2024 at 9:49 PM#2
julia.endo said:
The gap between trial results and real-world results is consistent and it is not fraud.

Agreeing with julia.endo, and the qualification matters more than the agreement. Read four things before the headline number. The population, because trial populations are selected and supported in ways that real cohorts are not. The comparator, because "better than placebo" and "better than the current standard" are different claims and get reported identically. The primary endpoint as pre-registered, because a secondary endpoint promoted after the fact is a hypothesis rather than a finding. And the completion rate, because a large effect in the half of participants who finished is a different result from a large effect in everybody enrolled.

Correct me if the detail matters more than I have assumed.

12 15jim_asheville, matt_MKE, Dr.ReproEndo and 9 others
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Dr.ObesityLA
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Oct 6, 2024 at 10:43 PM#3
julia.endo said:
The gap between trial results and real-world results is consistent and it is not fraud.

This is where I part company with the consensus forming above. I would add the less popular caveat: these trial populations under-represented several groups, older adults and the highest BMI categories among them. The results probably generalise, and "probably" should be stated as an assumption rather than dropped.

13 16tampaLisa73, KarenAZ_mom, zoe_NC and 10 others
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Dr.SportsMedIN
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Oct 6, 2024 at 11:37 PM#4

This one has a reasonably settled answer, so here it is. Relative and absolute effects need reading together. A 20% relative reduction on a high baseline risk is a large absolute benefit; the same relative figure on a low baseline risk is a small one, and press summaries almost always quote the relative number because it is bigger.

Last edited: Oct 7, 2024 at 4:37 AM
14 17Dr.SurgeonPGH, rachel_ABQ, traveltech_sara and 11 others
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TinaHashiRN
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Oct 7, 2024 at 4:42 AM#5
COA_Karl said:
Read four things before the headline number.

Second this. Posting only so the count is not one.

15 18MikeNYC_runner and 12 others
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