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WELCOME: Introduce yourself & read the community guidelines

Admin Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 5:20 PM 185 replies 24,631 viewsPage 1 of 20
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Feb 19, 2024 at 5:20 PM#1

WELCOME: Introduce yourself & read the community guidelines

Public Square is a small room with a long memory. These are the house rules; they are short because we would rather enforce a few things properly than list twenty and mean none of them.

The rules

  1. Argue with the claim, never the person. Hard disagreement is the point of this board. Contempt is not, and it is the one thing that gets a post removed without discussion.
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10 5PedsEndoPhilly, SleepDoc_PDX, RegAffairsDC and 7 others
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PurityPaulOR
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Feb 19, 2024 at 5:39 PM#2
Admin said:
WELCOME: Introduce yourself & read the community guidelines Public Square is a small room with a long memory.

Agreed, and subgroup analyses deserve particular suspicion. With enough subgroups something is significant by chance, and pre-registered subgroups are a different animal from ones found afterwards.

Last edited: Feb 19, 2024 at 8:39 PM
9 4MikeNYC_runner and 6 others
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Dr.SurgeonPGH
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Feb 19, 2024 at 5:57 PM#3
Admin said:
WELCOME: Introduce yourself & read the community guidelines Public Square is a small room with a long memory.

Pushing back on Admin here. I would add the less popular caveat: these trial populations under-represented several groups, older adults and the highest BMI categories among them. The results probably generalise, and "probably" should be stated as an assumption rather than dropped.

8 3PharmHunterJen, TomTeleRx, DoseLogDan and 5 others
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traveltech_sara
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Feb 19, 2024 at 6:16 PM#4

Short answer first, then the reasoning. The gap between trial results and real-world results is consistent and it is not fraud. Trial participants get titration by protocol, scheduled contact, free drug and dietetic support; removing that infrastructure costs a few percentage points every time it has been measured. When your own curve sits below the published mean, that is the likeliest explanation before anything about you or your material.

7 2NurseAsh_DET, BenResearch_OR, MikeKY_noInsulin and 4 others
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LindaRN_retired
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Feb 19, 2024 at 7:57 PM#5
PurityPaulOR said:
Agreed, and subgroup analyses deserve particular suspicion.

This matches mine closely enough to be worth saying so. Read four things before the headline number. The population, because trial populations are selected and supported in ways that real cohorts are not. The comparator, because "better than placebo" and "better than the current standard" are different claims and get reported identically. The primary endpoint as pre-registered, because a secondary endpoint promoted after the fact is a hypothesis rather than a finding. And the completion rate, because a large effect in the half of participants who finished is a different result from a large effect in everybody enrolled.

6 1mike_nyc, VendorMark, COA_Karl and 3 others
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